Part III. January 26, 1989 Interview

Part III.

January 26, 1989 Interview

[Interview conducted by Marlene Finley at Bessie Murphy's living room overlooking her forested yard.]

[Note: There were problems recording the first seven minutes. Finley's summary of the interview was written shortly after the problem was discovered. The summary follows: Mrs. Murphy is 94 years old. She was born before 1900. In the year 1900, she was five years old and her family moved to Corvallis. They were originally from Astoria, before that her ancestors from one side of the family lived in Tennessee, then Missouri, then they moved to Oregon. On the other side of the family they lived in Philadelphia, then they moved to Kansas and then they came out here to Oregon. Bessie Murphy told me that her relatives that lived in Kansas were run out of Kansas when the grasshoppers invaded, that's when they decided to move to Oregon. In 1922, Bessie Murphy graduated from Oregon State College, her major was Home Economics, though she did study and take classes in Botany. She studied under a Professor [Helen M.]

Bessie Murphy: Gilkey at that time. I asked Mrs. Murphy how she became interested in Botany. She said that her parents weren't really interested in plants, they had the belief or felt that most of plants are weeds since they were farmers that was their perceptions, but she did have some neighbors most of whom were girls and when she was a child she enjoyed going out with them and looking for plants and identifying plants. Luckily, she said, they did not collect the plants, they did not pick them and she believes that that's good conservation, not to pick the plants and she's glad that she learned that way. She said later in high school they taught Botany, something that she wished they still taught in the high schools. So her interests in plants began when she was a child. Over the years Bessie Murphy has been involved with several groups that enjoy going out and looking for plants in the forests and throughout this interview we spoke of places that she enjoys looking for plants. In this part of the interview that didn't tape very well, I asked Bessie Murphy about specific places that they looked for plants and what types of plants she felt were special, what were her favorites. She said that these plants, most of which were orchids that she still enjoys going out with friends and looking for, they only grow under very specific conditions. They do not grow everywhere, they will only grow in real . . . very particular places and these . . . there's good areas to find a variety of orchids near Sulphur Springs that's in the McDonald Forest, the OSU Research Forest. She also mentioned Trillium plants as being some of her favorites, and specific genus species of couple types of trilliums were mentioned.]

Marlene Finley: Okay, so no, I got this set up better it will come out. . . the tape will record better, so we talked about several plants, the moccasin flower [Cpripedium montanum/ and the Trillium ovatum, is that what you called it, and then the one that you showed me, the how do you pronounce this one, Habernaria elegans.

Bessie Murphy: Habemaria elegans, it's an orchid.

Marlene Finley: Okay, and spring beauty [Cardamine pulcherrima/, you said is the first one that blooms.

Bessie Murphy: The first really pretty, interesting one that blooms in the spring other than little weeds, you know, they come first, some of them. And then of course there's bleeding heart [Dicentra formosal.

Marlene Finley: Yeah, that's one of my favorites.

Bessie Murphy: And it has to have a wet place.

Marlene Finley: Oh.

Bessie Murphy: And there's a little orchid, oh, what is that common name, calypso [Calypso bulbosa], it's a little pink one.

Marlene Finley: Does that bloom around here, the calypso orchid?

Bessie Murphy: Yes, if it's the right conditions, it will grow in this area. And look at the wild ginger [Asarum caudatum], isn't that interesting.

Marlene Finley: Yeah.

Bessie Murphy: I've transplanted that in my yard and it grows.

Marlene Finley: Oh.

Bessie Murphy: They won't all do it, but that does. I've never monkeyed with the orchids, try to do anything with them, they're too touchy. Now this is another orchid, instead of a moccasin it's sort of a lip. And this is the same. And they grow up there in those woods around Sulphur Springs. Now this is a famous twin flower [jmaea borealis], the national flower of Switzerland.

Marlene Finley: Oh.

Bessie Murphy: And it's supposed to be pink.

Marlene Finley: Real light pink.

Bessie Murphy: Yes, light to medium pink and it's perennial on a little vine and these are called queen's cups [Clintonia uniflora]. They're a very interesting thing too.

Marlene Finley: Where are some other places that you liked to go out in the McDonald Forest to look for plants, or did you have any other special places?

Bessie Murphy: Just explore the place, you see, I haven't thoroughly explored it. I don't know what there is there any more, it's been so long since I could walk very far.

Marlene Finley: Oh.

Bessie Murphy: I don't remember much about what it is like anymore. It's awful strange, you see, it [Sulphur Springs] used to be a public campground, and I got over there and even my grandfather camped over there once with his family.

Marlene Finley: How long would they stay, usually?

Bessie Murphy: It depends on how long they have time to do it. Some of them would go over and stay a week, tents . . . there were tents, and everything.

Marlene Finley: Oh, I heard that and I was just wondering ,f they stay for over night or if it would be a week vacation, or.

Bessie Murphy: Yes, for a few days, it depends on how long they'd be from home and how they liked it.

Marlene Finley: I wonder what attracted people to that spot, why they liked that spot.

Bessie Murphy: Well, I think it was them springs.

Marlene Finley: You think so?

Bessie Murphy: They were very popular in the early days, there's sulphur springs and soda springs, there's one at Sodaville.

Marlene Finley: It doesn't seem like there's much water coming out at Sulphur Springs?

Bessie Murphy: On, no. That little pocket was always full.

Marlene Finley: Oh. Is there as much water as there used to be in there, is it about the same?

Bessie Murphy: The last time I saw it, it was. It isn't flowing much. You can dip it up and when . . at . various times, a person that owned it that I know of in 1900 was a Mr. Baker, Baker Creek was named for and he had it fixed up really nice and he had a croquet grounds and I don't think he did it but somebody later on cemented up the spring and had a cement thing there at the water come up like a fountain, you know. And of course vandals, they had to ruin it.

Bessie Murphy: Sickening. And then during the War [World War II] the army, the men did a lot of work over there and put up tables and all kinds of things, you know, and for . . . and that was about the time my girls were big enough . . oh, teenagers, and we did lots of horseback . riding. We'd go over there horseback riding all around. We'd go over there and take our lunch and oats for the horses and we'd pour the oats on the table and they ate them off the table. Well, the vandals ruined that. It's just maddening. Fools.

Marlene Finley: Where did you keep your horses?

Bessie Murphy: We had them at home.

Marlene Finley: And you rode all the way.

Bessie Murphy: Yes, we lived on Kings Road, we took them over the hills.

Marlene Finley: Were there any logging roads up there then?

Bessie Murphy: I don't remember of any logging, there may have been some but it wasn't prominent.

Marlene Finley: It. . . was it a farm. . . who owned that land, that forest then?

Bessie Murphy: The valley itself has the farm land and it was being farmed by farmers.

Marlene Finley: What about up the slopes?

Bessie Murphy: Oh, that was just wild country as far as I know.

Marlene Finley: Because that was. . might have been Universily. . . some of it might have been donated to the . University by then.

Bessie Murphy: Might have been, I don't know that.

Marlene Finley: I heard that it might have been Mr. Baker used to take his cattle from Soap Creek over to Oak Creek across the hill there right by Sulphur Springs.

Bessie Murphy: Yes. I understand that he did. And then there was one or two other men that were businessmen that lived over there at that time. There was one Mr. Moore who used to have . later had a chicken hatchery in Corvallis, and I went to school with his children. They lived there and farmed there for some years before they went to town. But it's a small valley and it isn't the best land.

Marlene Finley: For farming?

Bessie Murphy: Yes.

Marlene Finley: Yeah. Well, tell me about Dimple Hill3. I've heard that that is a nice spot for looking for wild flowers.

Bessie Murphy: Yes. It used to be. It's mostly unforested. It's bare, you know.

Marlene Finley: Yeah, it's a meadow.

Bessie Murphy: Yeah.

Marlene Finley: A natural meadow.

Bessie Murphy: And at that time it was owned by old timers here by the name of Locke. An area full of them. And it was called Locke Hill. And I don't think it is fair for some modern smart alec to come along and change the name. That was named for an old timer, pioneer. Of course, the Dimple Hill was done by just everybody because it looked like dimples, those ravines looked like dimples.

Marlene Finley: Oh.

[Footnote] The "Dimple Hill" Bessie is referring to is 'Chip Ross Park. It was called "Dimple Hill" before "IV Hill" before Chip Ross Park. It is thought that he name Dimple Hill was accidentally transferred to the old "Jackson Hill" by an error of U.S. Geological Survey. This is also known as "Mitzie Point" named after a surveyors dog who died at this location.

Bessie Murphy: And it was called Dimple Hill

Marlene Finley: But before that it was called Locke Hill?

Bessie Murphy: Yes, oh always, from the beginning.

Marlene Finley: Have you heard the name Mitzie Point?

Bessie Murphy: No.

Marlene Finley: Oh.

Bessie Murphy: What's that anyway?

Marlene Finley: They call. . . some people call Dimple Hill, Mitzie Point.

Bessie Murphy: Well, that's some personal thing they know about that I don't. And then it was named for this boy that got killed, I guess, it was Chip Ross.

Marlene Finley: Oh, yeah, that's on the other side of Dimple Hill, the Chip Ross Park.

Bessie Murphy: Well, you see we lived up against this west. . . east side, my father's farm came up that far against the Hill, or Locke Hill, whatever you want to call it. But I've noticed that lately, a good many years, there'd be some pioneer feature of the country called by a pioneer name for years and years then moderns come in and rearrange everything and change the names. I don't think it's smart.

Marlene Finley: Yeah. Are there any other points or places in the forest that you remember a name for that. what about McCulloch Peak, has that always been called McCulloch Peak?

Bessie Murphy: I've never heard of that. I don't know where it is.

Marlene Finley: It's west of Oak Creek, it's up this way going towards Kings Valley, Kings Valley would be out here.

Bessie Murphy: Little out of my range. I didn't go there with a horse.

Marlene Finley: I think you had. . . your own names for places you went to when you went horse riding.

Bessie Murphy: Yes, yes, somewhat just for us so as to mark what it is, so you could tell directions.

Marlene Finley: What about Oak Creek, did you. . . do you ever spend any time looking. . . is Oak Creek a placed that you would go to look for special plants?

Bessie Murphy: Let me see now, where is Oak Creek?

Marlene Finley: That's where you go by the fish lab, you get. . there's a few buildings that OSU has.

Bessie Murphy: Oh, out west of town?

Marlene Finley: Right.

Bessie Murphy: Oh, yes. I've forgotten the area.

Marlene Finley: Kind of by the fairgrounds there.

Bessie Murphy: Well, we didn't go out there much. It was quite a ways to go and we had plenty of other ways.

Marlene Finley: So Sulphur Springs was a place you went. Do you ever go up around Lewisburg Saddle and look for plants at all with your friends?

Bessie Murphy: Let me see now, what's that?

Marlene Finley: That's where there's. . . you go over the crest on the way out to Sulphur Springs and.

Bessie Murphy: Oh, yeah, that was our main trail, see, the Sulphur Springs Road and the Sulphur Springs area and the close by the hills.

Marlene Finley: All in there, huh?

Bessie Murphy: Yes, because you don't want to just ride all day, you want to do something. And the horses got tired.

Marlene Finley: So you'd look for plants for a while and get off?

Bessie Murphy: And we did climb Vinyard's Hill, but not with the horses. But we had to climb those hills, that was something to do.

Marlene Finley: So then was Vinyard Hill up behind. . . where Vinyard Estates is now?

Bessie Murphy: It's the tallest hill over in there, and it's bare on the front.

Marlene Finley: And they have the TV tower up there.

Bessie Murphy: I believe so. And you see, it was named. . . partly owned by the old time family, Vinyards, and the original Vinyard, was a teacher at the College.

Marlene Finley: Do you remember what he taught?

Bessie Murphy: No, that was before my time. A son and his family lived there on the hill.

Marlene Finley: How about Peavy Arboretum, do you ever these days. . . do you ever go to the Arboretum and look for plants or any areas in there . . . are there any good spots in there?

Bessie Murphy: I don't remember, I don't do so much of it anymore. And I can't go unless somebody takes me because I'm too old to drive. I'm handicapped. I miss all this.

Marlene Finley: How about Jackson Creek, do you know where.

Bessie Murphy: Oh, you bet your life.

Marlene Finley: Because that was closed to your family farm.

Bessie Murphy: I came through my father's place

Marlene Finley: Wow!

Bessie Murphy: Right down by the high school. And Frazier Creek north of it.

Marlene Finley: Right. There 's a cabin up in there, in the forest.

Bessie Murphy: There is? I didn't know that.

Marlene Finley: Yeah, a log cabin, there's two of them, and they're all. . . nobody lives in them, they're just tiny little things, I think they were built when the conservation corps were Out there, the army people.

Bessie Murphy: Oh, yes, it could be.

Marlene Finley: So there was afarm up there, up Jackson Creek, there's an old farmhouse up there?

Bessie Murphy: Oh, yes, that was the Stonebacks. Our neighbor, George Stoneback. If it's the one I think it is. He was up there, he wasn't on the Jackson place, he was north of it.

Marlene Finley: Maybe I'm thinking of Jackson place.

Bessie Murphy: Maybe. Yeah, there's several Jackson brothers and some. . I don't know if they all . or all . . . but there's two especially, I think they were bachelors and they evidently lived in town because they come out through the trail to go to the place, they'd walk along single file on the trail and come out to the place to do something, because they didn't live there anymore. You see, I was pass . . . they were. . . when they lived there and their parents and all, I wasn't there yet, I didn't know that. All I knew of them was those old men. And they didn't live by us.

Marlene Finley: What was your maiden name?

Bessie Murphy: Gragg.

Marlene Finley: How do you spell it?

Bessie Murphy: G-r-a-g-g.

Marlene Finley: Okay, and how many acres was your family farm there?

Bessie Murphy: Supposed to be 200 about that.

Marlene Finley: Did you raise cows, did your parents raise cows?

Bessie Murphy: Oh, it was general farming.

Marlene Finley: Oh, a little bit of everything?

Bessie Murphy: A little bit of everything. And there was a lot of that, you see that's what most of the country consisted of was small farmers at that time. And it gave them a chance to make a living and didn't have to be beggars. I think it was a whole lot better than the way it is now. It just makes me sick, no farmers anymore. It's a mess now, all these farmers, their kids as they grow up and teenage times, there's always something for them to do, especially during the harvest season, there was hop picking. And different fruit picking. And. . . I'm trying

Bessie Murphy: to think But there was ever so many things that these children could do and earn their money and help them in school and everything like that. Now there's nothing in those, don't amount to anything. I imagine there's a little fruit picking in the fall, maybe. But it's entirely different. I saw a lot of things change. Ask me more questions if you've got them.

Marlene Finley: Okay, the main thing I was interested in is places on the forest. What. . . any stories you knew about and you 'ye given me some really good infonnation about where people had their farms and the Jackson place and the Stonebac/cs and Locke Hill, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

Bessie Murphy: That was the farthest west that there was any agriculture. Mr. Stoneback and Jacksons. And

Marlene Finley: Well, what kind ofjobs did you have, you said you worked at a. . . something about seeds?

Bessie Murphy: Oh, you mean me?

Marlene Finley: Yeah.

Bessie Murphy: Yes, I was . . . do you know how a seed lab functions?

Marlene Finley: No.

Bessie Murphy: Well, you see there's lots of grain raised in Oregon but not necessarily this side of the mountains, it's over in Eastern Oregon, big grain fields and all. And whatever's raised that is sold has to be tested for quality. And that's what we did. They'd measure out a certain amount, by weight of those seeds, different kinds of seeds you see had different amounts, and we had to go through them with a lens and see everything in them. All the other seeds, weed seeds, everything, and estimate the amount of junk in them and all that before it was sold, so they could be told what the quality was.

Marlene Finley: There's still the seed lab.

Bessie Murphy: Oh, yes.

Marlene Finley: I've seen people working on campus.

Bessie Murphy: Oh, you bet. I don't think there's as much as there used to be. There used to be quite a lot of people. But the last one that I knew is retiring this week. And I think most of those that worked with me, you see, I've been retired thirty years. Most all the others are gone, they aren't all, but most of them are gone.

Marlene Finley: How many years did you do that?

Bessie Murphy: Seventeen.

Marlene Finley: And how many kids do you have?

Bessie Murphy: Two.

Marlene Finley: Oh, two daughters.

Bessie Murphy: Yeah.

Marlene Finley: And how many grandkids?

Bessie Murphy: Four, and I've got three great grandchildren.

Marlene Finley: Wow.

Bessie Murphy: There's no public roads. We couldn't even get over to those. . . And what do you want me to say about the right-of-way. What it is?

Marlene Finley: You were telling me about something about petitioning the county.

Bessie Murphy: Yeah, that's to get the county road. We had to use a right-of-way before there were any county roads. And that's just going through. . . there's a law allowing you to go through your neighbors place if you have no other way to get out, but you have to go where he says you can go on his place.

Marlene Finley: And what year was that?

Bessie Murphy: That was 1900.

Marlene Finley: Boy it is hard to imagine how different things were then.

Bessie Murphy: Yeah, you see it from that angle, I see it from the other end.

Marlene Finley: Yeah. How much it has changed.

Bessie Murphy: Yes! Well, then about the county road, in 1905 the neighbors petitioned the county court to get. . . to make them a road, to open them up a public road. And they said, "Sorry, we have no funds for a road." So then like a little red hen they said, "We'll do it ourselves." And that was something.

Marlene Finley: All the neighbors went together and built a road.

Bessie Murphy: Went together except one.

Marlene Finley: Oh.

Bessie Murphy: They worked all summer long, all they possibly could on that. I tell you it was something, I saw the whole thing.

Marlene Finley: And what road would that be today, is there a road there?

Bessie Murphy: Highland Way.

Marlene Finley: Really? Wow!

Bessie Murphy: Yeah.

Marlene Finley: That would. . . that is pretty steep hill even going over Highland.

Bessie Murphy: You bet it is, it is. Coming up to it both ways from. And of course they had to go around then and get permission from the owners where to put the road.

Marlene Finley: And all the owners gave permission?

Bessie Murphy: All but one.

Marlene Finley: And what did you do about that?

Bessie Murphy: Well, we had to pay him

Marlene Finley: Oh. Did he use the road?

Bessie Murphy: Well, some.

Marlene Finley: He probably did eventually.

Bessie Murphy: Yes, but he soon moved away, nobody was sorry. But they had to go, you see, to all Highland Way clear down to Kings Road and had to get permission from those people, one of them was my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, of course he gave the road for mama's sake.

Marlene Finley: And what was his name?

Bessie Murphy: Crees.

Marlene Finley: That's the Crees House, you told me.

Bessie Murphy: Yeah. There was ever so many people, you see, because it was quite a little. . . it was about three . . . at least three miles. And they didn't . . . some people grumbled about it, the road, but they couldn't get any where else, they had . . . the people make it had to take what they got and the owners and do the best that they could.

Marlene Finley: Yeah.

Bessie Murphy: And then when they got the road done and a little bit of gravel on and fixed up so they could use it. That fall I came to town to school on my pony.

Marlene Finley: Really? How long did it take you to get to school?

Bessie Murphy: It's farther now.

Marlene Finley: And wasn't school where the park is today, by the library?

Bessie Murphy: Yes.

Marlene Finley: It's Central Park.

Bessie Murphy: Central Park.

Marlene Finley: Yes. So. . . I'm just curious, what did you do with your pony tied up while you were in class?

Bessie Murphy: Well, you know, at that time, that was in 1905, not nearly all the people had a car and lots of little barns in town.

Marlene Finley: Would you have to pay like to keep your pony at a barn?

Bessie Murphy: A little bit because papa had to haul in hay and stuff to feed it. Yeah, but after a few years all the barns were gone or made into something else. I'm sure cars made the biggest change in civilization there's been for quite a while.

Marlene Finley: I think it would be neat to ride horses instead of driving cars. It would be cold.

Bessie Murphy: Oh yes, it had drawbacks, but it has pleasure and fun. And you had to learn something too. I loved it. And let's see, the. . . and because the county didn't have the money, you see, we could . . . they couldn't make a road. But the individual little things that . . . one that will interest you the next door neighbors was named Witham and that's an old timer out south of town, it was one of the Witham boys that lived there, family. And they had a on their place was a fairly level place. . . spot that was not trees and the wild strawberries were just thick, and this was in May when they were working on the Witham part. And just as the strawberries were coming, getting ready to be picked, and Mrs. Witham was about to cry because they were going to work on her part that day and ruin the strawberries, so the men got their heads together and said they'd work somewhere else till she could harvest her strawberries.

Marlene Finley: Boy, all these names, Witham Hill.

Bessie Murphy: Yeah.

Marlene Finley: Was all families.

Bessie Murphy: You bet, old timers.

Marlene Finley: Yeah. That's great. It gives so much more meaning to everyday things.

Bessie Murphy: Yeah, that's right.

Marlene Finley: You know where the names came from.

Bessie Murphy: Yes.

Marlene Finley: Was it called Crescent Valley then? Would you.

Bessie Murphy: For a long time it wasn't called anything I think. I don't know . . . I don't remember what it was called. I don't believe it was called, for some time at least.

Marlene Finley: Just the valley north of town. One of the valleys. Well I don't want to keep you any.