4.. Jack Price and Alvie Govier

Bob Zybach: There's a quote in this book you're holding that George Wisner wrote that said the difference between being a mill working family and being unemployed during the depression is that the unemployed people starved and the mill workers worked and starved.

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] Yeah.

Charles Hindes: [CHUCK] I don't know where he was working but I don't know of any mill operations that were operating between '29 and '30. There may have been a few.

Bob Zybach: On the Berry Creek side ... I think there were a couple that grew out of Coote's operation and... but there was problems there with... and then people went to the store in Airlie and worked for... at Weinert's store and that's how Weinert ended up owning Coote's operation after a few years. So far as you know virtually everything was shut down in '29 and '30.

4. Jack Price and Alvie Govier

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] Jack Price, ... What was his dad's name? Bill... not Bill Price. What was his name. Old Jack and Young Jack wasn't it?

Charles Hindes: [CHUCK] Gosh, I don't remember.

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] Old Jack had one arm off. Anyway I know that they carried the people out of the Soap Creek area, that was good people... They carried them on their account until they just couldn't carry anymore. And Dad, he worked for years to repay the grocery bill. He owed Jack Price five dollars or something like that until he paid it off after he went to Tillamook.

Charles Hindes: [CHUCK] And if he hadn't had the store in Kings Valley which was rock solid behind them, they would've never been able to do that.

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] No. Well, they stayed in business until both of them died and finally that store went on for years run by Price, they called it the Price Store until it burned down here a few years ago.

Bob Zybach: I've heard they've rebuilt it. I haven't seen it since...

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] Yeah. Well, it isn't nothing now. It's just a small modern store. The character's gone.

Bob Zybach: So, it sounds like . . . Between the Soap Creek side which, is running off the Price Store, and the Berry Creek side, which is running off the Weinert Store, that people controlling the groceries kind of controlled the mill industry in North Benton County and South Polk County there at that time.

Charles Hindes: [CHUCK] You bet they did.

Bob Zybach: So, when you came over in the Soap Creek... Can you remember the route you took from Kings Valley to Soap Creek at that time?

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] Uh, I can't for the life of me remember it.

Charles Hindes: [CHUCK] I suspect that we probably rolled up the tent and threw everything we could in the passenger car and made a couple of trips 'cause we couldn't make it in one trip. We didn't have a pickup. I know that. I do remember distinctly when we

Wisner, George B. Trees to Lumber McDonald-Dunn Forest: A Historic Look at Sawmilling, Oregon State University Research Forests, May 1992. This book is occasionally referenced throughout the remainder of the interview.

Charles Hindes: moved out of the sawmill site in Soap Creek and went to Tillamook that we hired Alvie Govier with his Model T Ford truck and it cost $25 hard cash to get him to move lock, stock and barrel to Tillamook.

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] He told our dad. Dad said, Well, I don't know Alvie when I can pay you any. He said, Well, Norm, I'll tell you. If you never pay me, he says, I'd rather see you starve someplace else than stay up here and starve to death. So they moved us over there. And us kids all rode on top of that thing he had out in the open. Mom, I guess rode up there with him and Dad drove the old car.

Bob Zybach: On Alvie Govier... At the turn of the century or the early part of it, 1910 or 1915 he ran some agricultural crews. I think they bundled wheat or something. Was he doing that still at the time that you can remember?

Charles Hindes: [CHUCK] Not to my knowledge. He had a little farming operation and I think he had a stationary threshing machine. But, he dabbled a little in sawmilling and he had some timberland on his place and did cut rough lumber, primarily for farm use, I think. It wasn't extensive and I think he pretty much ran it by himself but maybe some relatives but he didn't have a crew like we had at the Valley Mills operation.

Bob Zybach: Alvie Govier. Was he the one they called Shorty or was that Elmer?

Charles Hindes: Probably Elmer was Shorty. He was short and stocky.

Norman Hindes: [NORMAN] Yeah, Elmer was short and he was the nasty one.

Bob Zybach: Oh, he might have been the one that was running the threshing machine that I was thinking of too but I keep getting...

Charles Hindes: [CHUCK] It is likely because he had this big machine shed and he had at least one stationary threshing in there and a big Case tractor that I remember and I suspect that maybe if there was any extensive agricultural operations, it is likely Elmer was involved.

Bob Zybach: Probably Elmer and not Alvie then.

Charles Hindes: Yeah.

Bob Zybach: Okay. Well, now you're in Soap Creek and we have this map' right here and before you go to that because it's so detailed, I'd kind of like to set the place from maps that we already have.

Charles Hindes: Sure.

Bob Zybach: So, were to living up... Did you move right over to the Valley Mills site at that point?

Charles Hindes: Yes, from Kings Valley.

Bob Zybach: So, you moved into this location at that time.

Charles Hindes: Yes.

This map [facing page] is referenced during interview and used on-site during tour. We have noted the existence of the store but no mention has been made of the approximate number of people, men, women and children possibly 75 or a few more living in camp. Grandma Mattney (Douglas Gilliam's maternal grandma), maintained a cook house for several single men that lived in the sizable bunk house. A large horse barn accommodating as many as six teams it seems was an impressive structure. Two large "Nash Quads" designed to run on large wooden rails flanged wheels kept the vehicle "on track." Neither vehicle was made operational prior to the 1929 shutdown. - C. H.