1. Family Photographs

March 19, 1991 Interview

The following interview was conducted by Bob Zybach at the home of Velma Carter Rawie in Corvallis, Oregon.

1. Family Photographs

Velma Carter Rawie: I'm Velma Rwie and my parents were Elmer Pearl Carter, and Rose Elizabeth Carter. I am the great granddaughter of Tolbert and Martha Angeline Carter, who were. . . came out in 1845 I believe it was and settled on a Donation Land Claim in the Palestine. . . The area that is called Palestine where the old Palestine cemetery and church is.

Bob Zybach: The first question I'd like to ask is did any stories of the Oregon Trail, crossing the Oregon Trail, come through your family?

Velma Carter Rawie: The closest thing that I have to crossing the Oregon Trail was in a report made by my great grandfather at one of the conventions for the Oregon Pioneers Association and he gave a report of some of the trials and tribulations they had crossing the plains.

Bob Zybach: You have a copy there?

Velma Carter Rawie: I have a copy of it.

Bob Zybach: Okay. Would you mind jf we made of copy of that and maybe put it as an appendix to this interview? [See Appendix B]

Velma Carter Rawie: I would be happy for you to do that, and as I say, I have two other copies of this so I would like to have this one back but, it's not quite as important that I get it back.

Bob Zybach: 1 guarantee that you will get it back.

Velma Carter Rawie: But it tells a lot about the family and arriving in this part of the country. The Applegate Trail and whatnot; a lot of it. It's really interesting reading.

Bob Zybach: Okay. Do you know the history of your family before they came to the states?

Velma Carter Rawie: I really don't.

Bob Zybach: This is the earliest that you know?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yes. My mother especially, because my father died at fifty seven, he was very

Velma Carter Rawie: young when he died, and my mother was. . . she didn't like the old fashioned stuff. Well she just didn't have any antique furniture or anything because when the modem waterfall furniture caine out that was what she wanted. Even at ninety three she was a very modern person. By modern I don't mean wild and woolly, she liked new things.

Bob Zybach: Was it your grandma that lived to be 102?

Velma Carter Rawie: My great grandmother.

Bob Zybach: Great grandmother.

Velma Carter Rawie: Great grandmother that lived to be 102.

Bob Zybach: Would she be the wife of...

Velma Carter Rawie: She was the wife of Tolbert Carter and her name was Martha Angeline.

Bob Zybach: Can you remember Tolbert?

Velma Carter Rawie: I don't remember Tolbert. He died... Oh, but the biggest thrifi was to go to my great grandmother's on Sunday afternoon. Of course we didn't get to go to the parlor very often. But we always basically lived.. . in the kitchen

Bob Zybach: Why didn't you go in the parlor?

Velma Carter Rawie: Well, you know in those days parlors weren't for the kids to play in. That was where the nice ladies were. Their home was out by Palestine church and cemetery.

Bob Zybach: What do you remember about her?

Velma Carter Rawie: Well, the thing that always . . . that 1 am amused about is in those days we had rural telephones, you know, the crank telephones on the wall, and her easy chair was right by the telephone. It didn't make any difference whose ring came on the telephone, Grandma picked up the receiver and if she didn't get it she'd say, "What's that you say?"

Bob Zybach: [Laughter]

Velma Carter Rawie: Everybody expected her. They knew Grandma Carter was on the line, on anybody's phone, but they just took it for granted. After all, at a 103 I guess you could listen if you wanted to.

Bob Zybach: So everybody was...

Velma Carter Rawie: Everybody was. . . they might not have liked it but nobody objected to it.

Velma Carter Rawie: [Laughter]

Bob Zybach: It's pretty hard to get mad at a 103 year old lady.

Velma Carter Rawie: Yeah, uh huh. And she was really active up until her death you might say. She packed her water from the spring, she didn't have hot and cold water and one of her sons, Perry [Carter], lived right next door to her home. And uh... as I say, she was slightly built and she got more slightly built as time went on. People had the tendency to. . . they get a little more stooped although she wasn't really a stooped person.

Bob Zybach: Uh huh.

Velma Carter Rawie: But she was.. . I wish I had some pictures but then you wouldn't be interested..

Bob Zybach: Oh, I'm definitely interested in pictures!

Velma Carter Rawie: I will have to get.. . I fixed up a scrap book of pictures for both of my sons... of the old pictures of my great grandma.

Bob Zybach: U/i huh. I'd be vely interested...

Velma Carter Rawie: Is that [recorder] on? I'm gonna go get it. [Retrieves scrapbook]

Bob Zybach: Would it be possible for me to make copies of these?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yeah.

Bob Zybach: Okay. You can see that I am pretty slow about returning pictures, but I return them in good shape.

Velma Carter Rawie: I do have extras, but I don't. . . I just got these not to long ago and I haven't put them in my kids scrapbooks yet, but you could take them.

Bob Zybach: [Looking at family photos] Now what was her maiden name?

Velma Carter Rawie: Bileui. B-.i-l-e-u-i. Let me check it to make sure. Martha Bileui.

Bob Zybach: Now did she come out in 1845 also?

Velma Carter Rawie: Uh huh.

Bob Zybach: On the same train?

Velma Carter Rawie: Mr. [Tolbert] Carter was born in Missouri, November 6, 1825, of English ancestry. In early life he moved to Illinois and started from Morgan county in that state to Oregon in March of 1846. He was married to Mrs. Martha Angeline Bileui on August 13, 1852. So they were married.. . apparently her family was coming across on the piRins at the same time.

Bob Zybach: iL/h huh.

Velma Carter Rawie: I don't know that, but they weren't married until '52 which would be six years later. But then of course they didn't come out over night like we did too. They could have gotten married along the way someplace.

Bob Zybach: Now, her fanily, did they settle in this area also?

Velma Carter Rawie: I have no recollection of ever knowing any of Grandma's family.

Bob Zybach: So would you suppose...

Velma Carter Rawie: And if there were any.. . I don't remember any Bileuis. I'm sony but I am just at a loss there. I just have no idea.

Bob Zybach: Would your kids ever talk with her? Would she tell you stories of the old days?

Velma Carter Rawie: Urn. Not more than what I heard from my own grandparents. I was more interested when I went to her house to see her pretty pieces of cut glass and that sort of things. I have the chair that crossed the plains. . . I have some of her cut glass from what I call "Horn of plenty" and it hung on the parlor wall with two blue satin ribbons and whatnot. And I have that glass.

Bob Zybach: Would it be like a cornucopia?

Velma Carter Rawie: Like a cornucopia, but it was cut glass.

Bob Zybach: How many children did they have?

Velma Carter Rawie: Tolbert... [inaudible] my grandpa, Johnny Carter. . . Perry, uncle Virgil.. [another son of Tolbert's, Elvin Carter, moved to Washington state & never lived around here. VCR]. Mary married a Hodges . . .Clara married a Taylor. . . I think that that would be it [inaudible].

Bob Zybach: Would that be the Locke Cemeteiy?

Velma Carter Rawie: No, out at the Palestine Cemetery.

Bob Zybach: Oh, at the Palestine Cemeteiy.

Velma Carter Rawie: Yeah, none of my family is buried out here at the Locke Cemetery. We were farther north. We were really out in the country.

Bob Zybach: Now that brings up the question was the main town other than Wells. . . if you went to town would it be like to Salem or to...

Velma Carter Rawie: Albany. Albany or Corvallis, but Albany was more of a farmer's town. We very seldom came to Corvallis. We went to Albany every Saturday to buy our

Velma Carter Rawie: groceries, but it was only. . . it was rare, I don't remember coming to Corvallis as a kid like I did going to Albany. And mother would go and do the grocery shopping and whatnot and my dad loved automobiles. Whenever a new car came out he had one and he spent time going to dealers in Albany, you know, I mean they weren't like dealers today, to look at the cars and to B.S., so to speak, to the car salesmen. They all knew him and things weren't like they are now when I was growing up. I mean everyone knew everybody pretty much. And then my grandfather, Johnny Carter, had just three children and that was... This is my grandfather, Johnny, and his wife Mary and this was my father and my uncle who's. . . His name is Eston Avery Carter but he was "Mox," uncle Mox. M-o-x.

Bob Zybach: He's the one who lived by Coffin Butte?

Velma Carter Rawie: Uh huh.

Bob Zybach: Okay.

Velma Carter Rawie: And this is my aunt who married a Tomlinson.

Bob Zybach: And that is your father?

Velma Carter Rawie: That is my father.

Bob Zybach: JThat is his name?

Velma Carter Rawie: Elmer Pearl.

Bob Zybach: Elmer PearL And where did he get the name Pearl?

Velma Carter Rawie: I don't know, but I've got it to. I'm Velma Pearl.

Bob Zybach: Ak Would that be from her family?

Velma Carter Rawie: I don't know of any other Pearls that I've never heard in our family except for dad and me.

Bob Zybach: Viz huk

Velma Carter Rawie: He never went by Elmer. He always went by Pearl or E.P. Carter. He was E.P., all his signatures. . . he never signed any other. . . and he had beautiful handwriting.

Bob Zybach: I've heard people refer to Pearl Carter so...?

Velma Carter Rawie: He was Pearl Carter.

Bob Zybach: Now this is your...?

Velma Carter Rawie: This is my grandmother.

Bob Zybach: What was her name?

Velma Carter Rawie: Her name was Mary Williamson.

Bob Zybach: So she was a Williamson?

Velma Carter Rawie: She was a Williamson.

Bob Zybach: Do you recall who her parents were?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yes. They were just Grandma and Grandpa Williamson.

Bob Zybach: Oh, so they were still alive when you were young.

Velma Carter Rawie: Oh yeah. Uh huh, and she had lots of brothers and sisters. They lived more down in the Rickreall - Salem area.In fact, Grandma.. . in her family she was married, my grandpa and her were married early, I mean while she was quite young.

Bob Zybach: How old was she then?

Velma Carter Rawie: About 15 or 16 and she.., when her family had a family portrait taken one time, my granddad was in that same family portrait.In fact, I have the picture of that if you want to turn that off for a minute.

Bob Zybach: Okay. [Turned off recorder]

Velma Carter Rawie: . . dresser in the bedroom back there that I have nothing but old family portraits. This is my grandma and grandpa.

Bob Zybach: Williamson?

Velma Carter Rawie: Williamson. Great Grandma and Grandpa Williamson.

Bob Zybach: Now they crossed the Oregon Trail too?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yes, apparently they did, but I don't know anything about the route they took or anything like that. But this is my grandmother and this is Grandpa [Carter].

Bob Zybach: So he got in on the Williamson family portrait?

Velma Carter Rawie: But this is the Williamson family portrait.

Bob Zybach: Ah ha. [Laughter] He's like one of the family maybe?

Velma Carter Rawie: Well I think so. As I say she was quite young, and I think they might have.. . I don't know for sure but I think that they might have lived with Grandma, Great Grandma and Grandpa, for awhile after they were married.

Bob Zybach: If they lived in Rickreal4 do you recall any of the family names there? Like say Nathaniel Ford? Did they ever mention the Ford family?

Velma Carter Rawie: No, I'm not sure that Grandma and Grandpa, Great Grandma and Grandpa... but I have an uncle Jesse. Let's see, this is Uncle Jesse Williamson. He lived in Rickreall. In fact, I think that their son still lives in Rickreall and his name is Arms, Roscoe Arms. This is Aunt Lizzy. They lived in Salem and her husband's name was Edgar. [Inaudible] This was grandmother's youngest brother and he was a handsome gentleman. Even as he got older he had lots of curly hair. Isn't that funny how I never thought about that but I can remember when Uncle Gussy come to visit. We kids all looked at him like he must be really someone special because he was always dressed nice and stuff. This is beside the point of interest, but that's my mother and myself.

Bob Zybach: Oh, this is a nice picture of...

Velma Carter Rawie: This is me here.

Bob Zybach: You're the baby in the picture?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yeah. And my parents were this girl's guardian and raised her. They had her four years before I was born. My mother's half-brother was a blind person and his wife died when she - I call her my sister because we were brought up as sisters - was born. And since Uncle George was blind he couldn't take care of her so my mother and dad were appointed her guardian and raised her and they had never had any children which happens many times After they had had her for four years I came along.

Bob Zybach: Oh. Were you the only child?

Velma Carter Rawie: And I'm the only child basically, but Bess and I were brought up as sisters.

Bob Zybach: You sure were a pretty baby.

Velma Carter Rawie: Oh well, my mother did all the sewing of course. These are all mother's sewing made all these clothes for Bess and I. And my sister lives in Vancouver, Washington. We were brought up as sisters although she always went by her dad's name, Bessie Price, but my parents were her Mom and Dad. She called them mom and dad.

Bob Zybach: Was your mother then a Price?

Velma Carter Rawie: My mother was a Price from out in the Kings Valley area. You've probably heard the Price name from out in that area.

Bob Zybach: Yeah. Price Perkin. Do you know her parents names? Your grandparents Price?

Velma Carter Rawie: Now let me think a minute. You better turn that off a minute [inaudible]. I'm related to an awful lot of people in Benton county. Of course, both of my parents were from Benton county or Polk county, which joins. On mother's birth certificate it just says Polk county. It doesn't say Kings Valley or anything it just says Polk county.

Bob Zybach: So she was born in Kings Valley?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yeah. Uh huh

Bob Zybach: You mentioned her cousin Anson Price who lives on Maxfield Creek Road. If you went to visit him from Wells, how did you go there?

Velma Carter Rawie: Oh, I don't remember ever going out to visit them when I was a kid. I go to see them now because they're about all the family that is left along that side of the family. The Prices. . . Earl Price died not too many years ago and his mother Rovia Price, .. . You see, there were Anson and Anson's parents (Fred Price) and George, which would be Bess's dad. Great Grandpa Price had those three children and then his wife died and then Grandpa married my grandmother. So my mother and her. . . She had three sisters, four brothers by the second. . . I mean Grandpa Price did by my grandmother. So that was another family. Then my grandmother, after Grandpa Price died, remarried again and moved over to the Lebanon area1.

Bob Zybach: Was he still alive when you were young?

Velma Carter Rawie: Grandpa Price?

Bob Zybach: Yeah.

Velma Carter Rawie: No.

Bob Zybach: So that part of the family moved to Lebanon?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yes. Uh huh. I never. . . I don't remember that part of the Price family until after I was grown basically.

1 Ny grandfather, Dillard Price married twice. By his first wife he had Fred, Laura and George. George was Bess' father. By his second wife, Rose, he had Portia, Rose (my mother), Harriet, Dillard, Willard, and Ruth. Another child by his second marriage, Lester "Slim" Price died during the Flu Epidemic of 1918. -- VCR.

Bob Zybach: So you were mostly growing up around Carters and Williamsons...?

Velma Carter Rawie: Williamsons and Hodges. See, those Donation Land Claims were all taken out together, Hodges and up in the Palestine area.

Bob Zybach: The Hodges that you were related to, was that Maiy... ?

Velma Carter Rawie: That was Mary Carter who married a Hodges. Yeah. H-o-d-g-e-s. And they lived down on what we called River Road, which would be Spring Hill Road. Like from Albany. . . the one out Spring Hill Road.. . . out past the golf coarse and you come in Palestine out that way or by Camp Adair coming in from the east to Camp Adair . . . out where the incinerator used to be. That was Spring Hill Road or River Road. . . When we went to Albany, sometimes we'd go River Road just for something different when I was a kid.

Bob Zybach: So when you were little you always traveled by new car?

Velma Carter Rawie: Well, we always had... We had quite a few new cars, but I remember the old Model rs. We had those too though and what we called Ryal's Hill. . . I can remember a lot of times when we had to get out because they were muddy, dirt roads.. . ruts you know, If it was raining really hard, we'd all have to get out and dad would get a running shot at the hifi to make it and now it's no hill at all, but in those days it was a big hill.

Bob Zybach: What hill Ls Ryal's Hill?

Velma Carter Rawie: Well, if you went out to Palestine, you know where the Palestine church and cemetery is. . . Do you from Camp Adair?

Bob Zybach: Yes.

Velma Carter Rawie: If you go out here, like from here out to what we called the Granger road, you know where the.. . is it still there . . . where the Northwest Natural Gas have tanks out there. You know where that road is?

Bob Zybach: Yes.

Velma Carter Rawie: And you go north. Ryal's Hill would be the first hill that you, basically the first big hill that you come to. [Laughter] But as I say, in those days it was a big hill.

Bob Zybach: Can you remember any of the landmark names? There's Ryal's Hi14 then going towards Palestine Hi14 and there's Coffin Butte... Can you remember names for say, the hill in back of Peavy Arboretum?