2. J. A. Carter's Dry Goods Store

Velma Carter Rawie: No, I don't remember anything about that at all. I know, of course, where Peavy Arboretum is. But you see, when I was a kid even and we went to town, it was a big deal and we just.. . and there was just the one road. The roads that we think about now, close to Peavy Arboretum, weren't even there.

Bob Zybach: How about the people that lived in that area? Were they too far away? Like Thomas Reed or Columbus Reed...?

Velma Carter Rawie: There was a Walter Reed that lived out north of town that built when my parents built a new house, finally, Out Ofl the farm. A man by the name of Walter Reed built it, who lives out toward what I call Lewisburg. I remember that. Basically I knew just the people that were close neighbors or relatives in the area.

Bob Zybach: Now, when you were growing up then, you were living in, we looked at the map. . . just to the east of Coffin Butte. To the east of Highway 99.

Velma Carter Rawie: East of Highway 99. Between that and where the [Southern Pacific] railroad track run was were we had. . . Part of our farm was on both sides of the railroad track. The railroad run through our farm. But for me to go to grade school, well High school too, I walked to the east of our house and up the railroad tracks to school for eight years and then I walked for four years began to catch the school bus to come in to Corvallis to High school.

Bob Zybach: (Iii huh. How did the school bus run then?

Velma Carter Rawie: And the school bus then came out to. . . I'm trying to think how it came... Anyway, I had to walk up to the store, so to speak, to Grandpa's store, and that's where I met the school bus, and where all of us kids did, basically around there.

2. J. A. Carter's Dry Goods Store

Bob Zybach: [At] your grandpa. .. the Carter's store... ?

Velma Carter Rawie: My Grandfather Carter's store.

Bob Zybach: How many people lived in Wells at that time? ... when you were growing up?

Velma Carter Rawie: Well let's see. . . Hamen Lewis2. . . and it's rather funny. He was an old

2 Hamen Lewis (1847-?) was reputed to be "The first white child born in Benton County". His father, Hamen C. Lewis was one of the first white landowners in Benton County (See Tolbert Carter's mention of him in Appendix B.). The town of Lewisberg,

Oregon is named for this family.

Bob Zybach: hermity-type bachelor. I guess he'd been married. Well I knew he'd been married because he had two Sons. But he was kind of a weird old duffer. As a kid that is what I thought. We kids were always kind of warned not to let him get too close to us. But anyway, he had a long beard. . . he looked like a hermit and to us kids. . . But see, my Grandfather's store was the meeting place. We had eight mail trains a day at one time. So there were eight mail trains just going through your farm every day?

Velma Carter Rawie: Well. . . uh huh.

Bob Zybach: So that was a regular pail of your... ?

Velma Carter Rawie: And Grandpa went across the railroad tracks with the mail bag. It got down to where there was only one eventually and. . . But as I say, at one time. . . and they had the post office in the store, so he was the post master also. So everyone came to the store when it was time for the train and they had the old pot bellied stove in the back with the wooden floor. It. was that kind of a store. It was a general merchandize store. We had fabrics, and shoes, and corsets, and pop and canned goods. . . It was a general merchandize store.

Bob Zybach: If somebody wanted a large item, say a piano, could they order it through your grandfather and have it come on the train?

Velma Carter Rawie: No, no. Probably they could have. I have just recently received a letter from Donald Tonilinson, who was a kid that I went all through grade school with and whatnot and he sent me a receipt for a piano where, somebody had sent cash back east.For a piano [See Appendix C. illustration}.

Bob Zybach: Wow.

Velma Carter Rawie: And that's right off hand, and I'll have to look to be sure where that piano went but I'll look. J.A. Carter's Dry Goods store, he sent that to me too3.

Bob Zybach: Oh. So this is an ad from your grandfathers store.

Velma Carter Rawie: Well yeah, uh huh.

Bob Zybach: But it's on a book of songs?

Mrs. Rawie is reading from the cover of the 1891 "Merchant's Gargling Oil Songster," which is reproduced in another part of this monograph. A nearly complete copy of the. Songster is on file with OSU Research Forests (Cultural Resources Manager) and with the Oregon State University archives.

Velma Carter Rawie: No, it's kind of like an almanac, a calendar, an almanac type of thing, but it was apparently an advertising thing for Grandpa's store. "J.A. Carter; Wells, Oregon; dried goods and groceries, hardware..."

Bob Zybach: I've got an interest in black histoiy. Do you remember any black people fin Wells]? Now here's a 'Whistling Coon'4

Velma Carter Rawie: No, I don't.

Bob Zybach: Were... Things like this would be considered really derogatoty now. Was that common entertainment then or was this kind of unusual for that time to?

Velma Carter Rawie: I don't know.

Bob Zybach: Was this maybe turn of the centuly? .. . Januaiy

Velma Carter Rawie: Does it have a date on it there anywhere?

Bob Zybach: 1891.

Velma Carter Rawie: 1891.

Bob Zybach: So that would be just a hundred years ago this...

Velma Carter Rawie: It would, wouldn't it? Oh, here is a receipt. Oh, it was for the church. Mr. James Gingles; Wells, Oregon; Dear sir, Your favor of the 11th including currency of $125 was received. And that was for a piano.

Bob Zybach: Oh, so they were a lot more trusting of the mail in those days.

Velma Carter Rawie: I was just floored.

In addition to "Whistling Coon" (the song given for the Month of May on page 13, copyrighted and for sale by Win. A Pond & Co.), a surprising number of songs were printed in the Songster that would be considered degrading to African Americans by today's standards. These included "Dar's A New Moon in de Sky!" (February's song), "Jericho" (page 11), and the selection for September, "Haul the Woodpile Down." Although the Songeter may not have actually had the."millions of friends and patrons" claimed in its annual message to its readers, it undoubtably had a significant influence on the readers (and singers) of Wells and other rural Oregon communities. Many of these towns, including those along the railroad lines, never had black residents or visitors. The timing of this widespread advertising brochure was only 30 years after the publication of "Uncle Tom's Cabin" and over 50 years before the Hollywood stardom of Stepin Fetchit. The comical and paternalistic depiction of black people in the popular music of the time was probably viewed as positive and supportive, if at all. The fact that "black music" was nearly 1/3 of the total "new listings" put out by a major throat "gargling oil" manufacturer is of historical interest.

Bob Zybach: Now do you remember any of the Gingles family?

Velma Carter Rawie: No, the only thing I remember about the Gingles is what I've heard Perry talk about the old Gingles school or the Gingles cemetery. Well the Gingles cemetery is still out there, but it is all overgrown. It isn't taken care of at all. Here's the letter from JJ. Gingles.

Bob Zybach: In 1894?

Velma Carter Rawie: Uh huh.

Bob Zybach: Now who. . . Mr. Tomlinson sent this to you?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yeah, this was my Aunt Mattie or Aunt Martha. The one with the picture of my dad. His sister was Martha or "Mattie" Tomlinson. Mattie married a Tomlinson.

Bob Zybach: So this would be your first cousin?

Velma Carter Rawie: No, they are my aunt and uncle.

Bob Zybach: Oh, Okay.

Velma Carter Rawie: But this would be to Clyde's parents. This would be.. . I would imagine that this was [inaudible]. But the Tomlinson's caught my uncle Clyde Tonilinson. . . It would be his parents. It would be in the same category at this age of the dates of these, letters like 1894. It's my grandparents, my great grandparents. So it would be my uncle's parents. I'd put them in that same category.

Bob Zybach: Now, what happened to the Gingles family?

Velma Carter Rawie: I don't know that even. I do know that the cemetery is still out there but it is all overgrown and it was. . . I don't really know if they were related to us .. . I don't think they were. They could have been related to the Tomlinsons.

Bob Zybach: Now, when you were growing up, I don't think you've got this on the recording but, you went to Sunday schooL You went to church there?

Velma Carter Rawie: We went to Sunday school at this little church in Wells. We had church services sometimes. I remember Reverend Driver, he was kind of a traveling minister or something, came through and he would stay with people in the community, very distinguished looking gentleman. And then we had a train car that would come in and hold revival meetings. It would pull in on the siding and might be here for awhile.

Bob Zybach: And would your family attend these revivals?

Velma Carter Rawie: Oh yeah. My father didn't. He wasn't too much on that. He would see that we went to Sunday school. I don't mean that he was an atheist, but I mean he was a farmer and had more important things to do.

Bob Zybach: Ah.

Velma Carter Rawie: Well, that's just about the way to put it.

Bob Zybach: Did most farmers have that attitude?

Velma Carter Rawie: Not necessarily.

Bob Zybach: But some did?

Velma Carter Rawie: Yeah, and my dad spoke his own mind. He was just a hard working person. He was, a lot of times, one of the few people who had money in his pocket and could loan some or give some to a fella that was hard up or needed something. He was well respected by the people. In fact, I have a two-and-a-half dollar gold piece that was his watch fob that I wear as a necklace now that was paid way back when they had box socials and basket socials for entertainment. . . When the ladies fixed up the boxes and baskets and whatnot and the men bid on them and my dad was always the cashier for these things. And this one fella wanted this particular girl's basket awfully bad, of course this was before my time, but this is the way the story goes, and he bid two dollars and a half. In those days, which was a lot of money, and he paid for it with a two-and-a-half dollar gold piece. My dad had the money, so he kept the two-and-a-half dollar gold piece and put the money in. So that was what he wore. Of course, I have his watch, but I took the fob off of it and put it on a necklace.

Bob Zybach: Well how big a farm did your dad have then?

Velma Carter Rawie: We had 100 acres.

Bob Zybach: And what crops did you raise?

Velma Carter Rawie: Oh, we raised wheat, and oats, and barley, and hay. We had. . . We milked.

(End of tape 1, side 1)

Velma Carter Rawie: You know, right down here where Dixon Creek Dental Offices are. Down here on Kings road. That's where Bessie. . . the big old house .. . she was Bessie Fleischman when I knew her first and then she married a Murphy in later years. But she lived right down here and her old original house, not the original house